JJ: Welcome to the show, everyone. I’m going to try to contain my excitement. What happens when I get excited is I talk extra fast. And what I love about today is I have Bruce Lipton back. I’m so excited. And he talks as fast as I do. So, hang on to your hats. If you’re finding this on YouTube because you were looking for Dr. Bruce Lipton, I just wanted to let you know this is my show. What does that mean? That means I’m going to talk. That means I’m going to have a conversation. If you don’t like me, totally cool. Bruce, where can they find more of just you if they don’t like me?

Dr. Lipton: brucelipton.com. That’s easy.

JJ: Very easy. Okay, cool. If you’re listening to this on the podcast, we have done another video. Dr. Bruce Lipton has been here before with “Biology of Belief.” It took a long time. I talked about that book for 10 years before I ever met you and before ever I read it. But I talked about it and told everyone about it. So, today we’re going to be talking about “Spontaneous Evolution.” And I have the book. I have the audio book. So, the subtitle is “Our Positive Future and A Way to Get There from Here.” Boy, do we need that right now. So, thank you, Dr. Bruce, for being back on the show. I’ve missed you. It’s been too long. But I know how popular you are, so I do appreciate any time that you can make it here.

Dr. Lipton: I am so honored to be here with you because I know your important work is to wake up this world, and you have a wonderful audience out there, people who say, “Come on, feed me some stuff here.” And as long as they don’t cancel us, because it’s hard to say the truth these days if it challenges the official version, and I’m not an official version.

JJ: Neither am I. So, I went back and forth. I was reading, and then I was listening. And again, what I love about you, besides many things, is that you talk as fast as I do, and so listening was really fun. And then Steve was a great addition to have in there to kind of pass the story back and forth. However, if anybody gets both of them, don’t try to follow the book. I did. Don’t try to follow the book as they’re talking because they don’t read. They just talk. So, it was really, “Wait a minute. Where am I?” I’m looking at the pages, thinking, “What did he say? That’s not in here.” And I was like, “Forget it. We’re just going to go with the audio and be done.” But what I found really inspiring and—I don’t know, funny? Not funny—ironic is that when you started this book, because this is not a new book, I was like, “Oh my god. What was going on during the time that you wrote this book?” Because it applies to exactly what’s going on right now, which leads me to believe that we have a crisis every however many years that we’re dealing with, because I’m like, I knew you weren’t talking about the here and now in this book because you wrote it many years ago.

Dr. Lipton: At least 10 years ago. And we’re in process. And I’m so happy and sad at the same time because the truth is what’s happening right now is part of an unfolding. And it’s sort of like when a caterpillar goes into a butterfly, metamorphosis. It starts out as a caterpillar, which is a voracious organism, it eats all the damn leaves off the plant, and then it goes into a pupa, a chrysalis, a cocoon. And I say, “What happens in that cocoon?” I say, “Well, the functions of the caterpillar are not going on.” They’re not moving. They’re not eating. They’re not digesting. So, the cells in the body of the caterpillar break apart because there’s no job. They’re out of work. And cells are like miniature people, so all of a sudden, this voracious organism that was powering through, all of a sudden, no jobs. The work is stopped. And I go, “What happens?” Well, that’s when a community starts to fall apart. But in that cocoon, what people don’t see is there are a group of other cells called—I love the word—imaginal cells, and they have a vision of a future. And so, that population that is coming down, falling apart, is being guided by imaginal cells to build a better future. And the idea is if you looked inside a cocoon, it looks like chaos. I mean, cells are all falling apart, but some cells are building up. The point is this: Don’t hold on to the caterpillar. The caterpillar did its thing, voracious, destroyed the environment it was in, and then evolved into a higher level of organization with the lightest touch: a butterfly.

We are in this process, and the relevance about it is this. Look around, it’s falling apart. And I go, “Thank God.” Why? Because the way we’ve been living on this planet, we have actually been creating our own extinction. And people say, “Oh, extinction, like million years from now.” I go, “No. How about a couple of decades from now?” This is what even NASA scientists have said: that industrial civilization, the one we’re in, within two decades, it is facing—and I use the word, and I emphasize it, they use—an irreversible collapse. It’s not going back. No matter how many people say, “Let’s take it back,” it’s like, “No, it was the problem,” and that we have to break it down to build a healthier, sustainable civilization. So I say, “So, what does that look like?” I say, “Well, it’s like being in a cocoon.” There are cells all over the place going, “Oh my god. The thing is falling apart.” And there are cells that are saying, “Look, let’s move this way because here’s a better way to survive into the future.” And the bottom line message for me at this point to the people is simply this: Don’t hold on to the caterpillar. It’s falling apart. To survive and thrive, you have to let go and build a more sustainable civilization. And this is what Mother Nature is calling on us to do right now. That’s why the chaos. Mother Nature is saying, “You can’t keep doing this. You have to move to a different place.” And that’s why I’m so honored to be here with you because your audience right now is part of that “Let’s move to a different place.” But you need some information to go from the “falling down” one to the “building up” one. And so, thank you for this opportunity to talk about this.

JJ: Anytime. You’re welcome back anytime, as many times as you want. Because, again, we talked about epigenetics and quantum physics in our last conversation with “Biology of Belief” in terms of what’s going on right now. And I even had somebody that watched and said, “Yeah, I don’t buy it.” And I’m like, “Okay.” I mean, somebody who is not part of my community. But I said, “Okay. Well, I’m not going to try to convince you. It’s totally cool.” Because, again, when we look at quantum physics and frequency, okay, well, we’re not on the same frequency, and that’s okay. So, maybe you’re part of the cells that are dying, and I know for sure that the people that listen to my show, the podcast anyway, are the ones who are the imaginal cells. I really love that. I think I’m going to have to create a group, because Northrup has her Warriors of the Radical Light. I’m like, “Huh. Maybe Dr. Bruce Lipton should have his Imaginal Cells group of people who want to continue to push the 5D earth into existence for all of us and create that collective consciousness,” which I know doesn’t need to be everybody, but the more people we have… And I do see it. It’s just slow. The thing that I sit with is that the truth will be made known. It’s inevitable. How long it’s going to take and the damage that might have to ensue between now and then, what do you feel about that?

Dr. Lipton: Well, we’re in process. And listen, here’s a very simple fact. We’re in a state of collapse for a couple of different reasons. One of them, number one, is economy. It’s made on a false pretense of paper money that can change value from day to day. It’s like, “Okay, how much is a dollar worth today? and I go, “Tomorrow, it may not be worth that at all.” And I go, “Well, energy is what keeps us alive. Money is energy. If you have money, you can stay alive.” But if your money disappears, then you’re lost in this situation. Well, the money is like a pyramid scheme, paper money, and that’s why the value changes from day to day based on whatever people believe it’s in. Biology doesn’t have paper money. Biology has real money. In your system, there’s energy and it’s stored. And it’s stored in the form of a molecule called ATP. In biology, they say the coin of the realm, meaning that is the unit of energy.

Very simple fact. Let’s say a biological process. One billion years ago, a biological process, let’s say respiration, took 50 ATP molecules to do it. And I say, “Well, that was a billion years ago. How much does it cost to do it today?” And the answer is 50 ATP molecules. Why? It’s a value that is pure and real, not made up. And money is made-up value. What do you want today? Go look at the market. Tell me how much gold is today. The prices go up and down. I go, “Well, where’s the value in something that can change value overnight?” And the fact is this. I’m sorry I talk so long about it, JJ, but here’s the point. It is in a collapse. We are facing an economic collapse. And I say, “So, what do you think the leadership is going to do?” I go, “Oh, we’re just going to have a big collapse.” I go, “No, they want to hold on tight,” because the idea is if it falls apart, they’ve lost the control. And today we’re experiencing, more than ever before, the attempt to control a population and tell them from one source.

That’s the other problem. It’s like the whole world is responding to who? CDC, FDA. I go, “You mean the whole world, all around the world, is listening to this one voice?” I go, “That’s called world government.” And they’re holding the world like this to keep it from going… Inevitably, it has to go, because the second part of the story is not only is money valueless at some point; it is that we are in what officially is called the sixth mass extinction of life. Now, the first thing you have to understand is if we’re in sixth, then there must have been five. And five times in the history of life—this is a fact of science—life was thriving on this planet, and then some cataclysmic event wiped out up to 90% of life. The last time, 66 million years ago, the place was flush with forests and green and everything, and dinosaurs. And a comet hit near Mexico. It was such a big comet that it upended the web of life. All the dinosaurs disappeared. 75% of life disappeared. That’s called a mass extinction.

We’re in the same process, but it’s not a comet. It’s human behavior that is not living in harmony with nature. And the idea is there’s some belief that we can dominate and control nature. That is the whole mission statement of science. That’s why they say, “How can we control all this?” And the answer is you cannot control this. Nature is at the charge. Nature, she’s in charge. We are just elements in the garden. And the idea of our foolishness that we can tell Mother Nature how to run her world, well, it’s falling apart. And there’s climate change going on. There’s all other kinds of issues. We’re destroying ourselves. We destroy ourselves with the food that we’re growing because people have a misunderstanding about nutrition and nourishment and all of that. We’re spoiling the planet. We’re putting pollutants all over it. I mean, the ocean is polluted. Here’s a fact. In 2048, not very far from now, science has recognized there will be no fish in the ocean. 2048, it’s not very far. I say, “What does that mean?” Planet Earth, no fish in the ocean. Why? We’ve overfished, we’re destroying the breeding grounds, and we’re polluting the hell out of the water. And I go, “And how are we going to do when the fish are gone?” And the answer is that’s like the canary in the mine. When the fish go, there’s more than just fish missing here. We’re in a lot of trouble.

And the idea about it is it’s a wakeup call. And the leadership, seeing that this is in a collapse, it’s going down, and the last ditch effort, are holding us together so they don’t lose control. Well, I sure hope to hell they lose control because the collective human experience is much more powerful and life-saving than the individuals who are making decisions for us. It’s a collective experience, and they’re breaking the collective, and that’s their last ditch effort to stop the evolution. And the fact is it can stop. We could end. As NASA said, two decades, irreversible collapse of civilization. We are in it. All you have to do is look out your window and see that this thing is collapsing. Now, the question is this: Are we going to just continue to collapse and go downhill and then say, “Hey, human experiment was pretty good, but it didn’t work,” or are we going to change? Are we going to take our power back?

Each one of us is a creator, and your whole work, JJ, is to open up the power of our own creative ability. Because if we keep thinking we’re victims, then that means, by definition, we are powerless. Tell them, “You’re a victim,” and they go, “Oh, I have no power. I’m a victim.” And I go, “But we’re all just filled with about 7.5 billion victims who think that they have no power.” And I go, “My god, every one of us is a creator, but nobody is given the information that you are powerful.” Everything is “Oh, you’re a victim. You’re a victim of your heredity. You’re a victim of this and that.” And I go, “No.” We are creators, but if you create victim, then you become victim. And this is the effort to disempower the public. And recently, as you found out, when you’re trying to advance and educate the public, they don’t want that. They will cancel you. The cancel culture is happening right here. And I’m so glad you’re here, JJ, because we need every open opportunity to help the individuals out there. Because who wants to be the victim?

JJ: No, it’s not a powerful position to be in. Since you and I met, lots have happened. I started a certification to train other coaches to do what I do, and to teach the tools that I teach. And one of the core foundations of what I teach, I’m an empowerment strategist, is that you only have two choices. When you’re in the victim position, there’s nothing you can do from that. You’re powerless. And it might feel good at first to feel like a victim because then you don’t have any responsibility, but ultimately, if you want to feel better, you have to make a choice to take responsibility for possibly everything you can in order to have choice in each situation. Even though it might sound ridiculous to some people and they may think, “Well, I’m not responsible for this,” just try me. Take responsibility for everything, because from that place of power, you get to make choice and you will feel better. But back to… Because I want you to keep talking, trust me. I don’t need to hear myself talk about things. I want you to educate us. I want you to help us. But you’ve talked on so many things, and I’m like, “Wait. Okay. Question about that.” Okay, so I want to go back to you said six. This is the sixth world extinction?

Dr. Lipton: Right now, we’re in it for, by science’s understanding, 15 years. They have been telling the public, “You are undermining the web of life, and you are the web of life.” And when the web of life collapses, so does human civilization. And we are in a real collapse. We’re losing species of organisms faster, a thousand times faster than background today. And it’s not because they’re weak. It’s because we have undermined the viability of an ecology, as if we can do whatever you want. I say, “No, you can’t do whatever you want. You’re a biological entity and a web of life. We’re connected.” And yet there’s this belief that “We can dominate and control nature.” That’s a mission statement of science from the 1600s. It was actually a guy, Francis Bacon, who made this mission statement. “The aim of science is to dominate and control nature.” Nobody wants to say this, but I love it because when you go back and you find out Francis Bacon, a science philosopher who came up with this, was one of the greatest misogynists ever. He was so against women. He was involved with the witch trials. “Women are witches” and stuff like that. And nature was a woman. And that’s what he said: “We must control her. We must tie her down. We must do all these things.” It’s like, “Oh my god. Listen to the words that this guy is saying.” And he was using feminine issues in the population to bring in nature as feminine and say, “And just like we must control the women, we must control nature.”

And I go, “Oh my god.” It’s like it’s a little big-headed thinking that you think you’re going to control nature. Well, nature is giving us the message right now that says, “You better shape up because we don’t need you in the garden.” And a lot of people don’t understand that a garden, the garden from whence we came, by definition, is the height of cooperation. Every organism in the garden is supporting the garden. Except when something comes in and upsets the garden, nature will eliminate that organism because it’s creating disharmony. And a garden is not a battleground. A garden is a height of cooperation. And I say, “And what have we done?” We have thrown a monkey wrench into the garden, and as it’s going down, we have to go down with it, because we’re not separate from them. You can’t be here without nature. We are nature. And when nature falls, so do we. And so, we’re looking at our own ending right now.

JJ: I love it. Go back to the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs. What number was that?

Dr. Lipton: What number what?

JJ: What number extinction?

Dr. Lipton: Five. 66 million years ago.

JJ: Okay.

Dr. Lipton: There were four others before that.

JJ: Which one was, if there was… There was an Abraham quote at one point about fossil fuels and who was burning the fossil fuels when the ice age happened, meaning nobody was because that wasn’t around. So, the earth took its balance at that point, but what number extinction was the ice age?

One of the big issues is this place in Turkey supported a population. If you go there today, it’s like desert. I go, “What happened?” I go, “Climate change.” They didn’t adapt to the climate change. That’s one thing. And they got lost. And we have to do this right now. And people say, “Climate change. Oh. That’s the one where the snow and ice is going to melt, and the water is going to come up and go over the cities at the edge of the…” I go, “Yeah, that’s one problem. You want to hear the real problem they’re not telling you?” I go, “What is it?” How can you plan agriculture when you can’t plan the weather? When the weather changes, you can’t grow food? Why? It’s a drought. It’s too hot. It’s too cold. These are the fluctuations that are going on right now. And I go, “And what does that mean?” I said, “You cannot plan agriculture if the weather is erratic. And it is erratic.” And I say, “What about it?” I go, “Hey, go to the grocery store, folks. Look at the prices on these things.” I go, “Why?” “Because the production is going down and the prices are going up.” And I go, “What does that mean?” I said, “You’re not going to survive if you can’t have food.”

And so, thank God there’s some forward-thinking people because the newest thing that’s happening now are big buildings, like tall, vertical buildings with growing food. And guess what? They’re about three times more efficient in growing food in the building than outside the building. So, all of a sudden, yeah, there’s a future coming. We have solar energy. Now we’re going to have indoor growing. But we have to move on this. And anything that stalls this, when you get “Let’s go back to the way it was,” and I go, “The way it was was the damn problem. I don’t want to go back.” Make America great again? Well, America was great when the Europeans didn’t get here. America was great when the Natives were here because, guess what, that was a civilization that understood it was a garden and that they were here to maintain the garden. Somewhere along the line, indigenous systems lost and now we’re here to dominate and control the garden, and it’s not working very well.

JJ: And I hope a lot of people recognize that. Again, if you’re finding this on YouTube and you’re new to me, and I doubt you’re new to Dr. Bruce, that’s why you found this, that this wouldn’t be new to you. And I hope that you would share this with people who are open to this. I wouldn’t shove it down people’s throats that are clearly not open to this and live in victim mentality. So, there are a couple of things. So, was it the beginning of climate change? Because, again, you talked about the state of the world, or this is at the beginning of this book when you wrote it and all of the things that we were talking about, which apply now, but I was literally like, “Oh my god. This is happening now, but it was happening then. What was it then?” What was the biggest issue when you started writing this book?

Dr. Lipton: The biggest issue was the untalked about issue, and that was science had already recognized 15 years ago that we are creating our own extinction because we’re changing the web of life. Monocropping, cutting down all the forests and planting the same plant. No place on the planet is monocropping except where humans put it. It’s not part of nature. The idea of burning a rainforest down to make more hamburgers for people. And I go, “Holy cheese.” And here’s the joke. There’s an inside joke, right? We should live to be at least 150 years of age as an average human. I go, “Then how come we don’t make it?” The biggest issue, and people don’t even get it, is we eat too much food. I go, “What do you mean?” We should be on subsistence diets. What does that mean? I go, “Minimum amount of food.” And I go, “Why?” Because when you digest food, it’s burning fuel. I go, “Well, when you burn fuel, what do you get?” I say, “You get waste products.” Don’t breathe the exhaust coming out of the exhaust pipe of your car. Why? It’s toxic, waste product. And I go, “There’s a waste product when we eat food and digest it. It’s called free radicals.” I go, “What are those?” These are charged particles that are like bullets. Free radicals break a cell, shoot into the cell, break the cell. And so, we’re killing ourselves with the byproduct of eating too much food.

People like breatharians. I go, “Well, what are they?” They say, “Well, they say they don’t eat, but some of them eat saltines.” I go, “Well, they’re sure as hell not supersizing their saltine meal right there.” They eat minimum. And guess what? They’re as healthy or healthier than anybody else. And so, there’s a new insight coming, and it’s not even in the world yet, but it’s out there. And that is, as plants have chloroplasts, which take sunlight and turn it into food energy, humans have pigment, melanin in the skin. And I go, “What about that?” It is now recognized that melanin takes energy out of the environment and converts it into biological fuel. And I go, “What does that mean?” I say, “Nature was intelligent. It didn’t evolve an organism that needed so much food that it ate up the planet. As we evolved, we needed less food.” And now they found out for a fact. You cut a diet down to subsistence level and you’re going to essentially double the lifespan of any animal.

All laboratory animals that… Look, I grew rats in my laboratory research. I didn’t give them breakfast. “Oh, here’s your breakfast today. And now here’s coming lunch. You’re going to have some lunch.” No, you throw them all the rat pellets in the cage thing, and they eat as much as they want. They found out that, actually, if you just put a little bit of pellets, then the rats will double their lifespan. And it turned out to be rats and cats and monkeys, and now it’s also recognized in humans. So I said, “We’re eating the environment, destroying it, to feed a belief that we need to eat that much food to stay alive when eating that much food is shortening the lifespan.” It’s like, “We got to wake up, folks.” We’ve got to come back and start to recognize we are so out of harmony with nature that we are causing our own extinction. Not nature. Nature is saying, “You are bad in the garden. You guys are the virus in the garden.” And nature will eliminate any of the pathogens in the garden. And she has given us a wakeup call, saying, “We don’t need no stinking humans.”

JJ: What’s so fun about the alignment of this conversation, again, another thing that’s happened since I saw you last is that I have hooked up with Dr. Nasha Winters, who wrote “The Metabolic Approach to Cancer.” And Dr. Nasha’s whole platform is about terrain-based treatment. And so, this terrain we’re talking about, and then, of course, one of the reasons why she even survived her own cancer (it was a stage four ovarian cancer at 19) was fasting. And so, that’s a huge part in the cancer world: fasting. And just in health in general. There’s a ton of doctors talking about fasting and its benefits, and bringing us back to being able to use ketones. So, this is a new level that we’re taking from our skin being able to take from the environment, which I love because that adds to another reason and more scientific evidence to show us why fasting is necessary for our health. So, again, it’s all kind of coming together, which I didn’t really plan. But this has been the evolution in the last two years for me too.

So, when I was reading this book, I mean, I have a lot of questions. One of the things, we have to get to “The Matrix” at some point, okay? And we kind of already talked about it, and I want to break it down a little bit more. My partner Doug had never seen any of them, and I sat him down, and we watched all four of them in a row so that he could really understand. And then, of course, you were mentioning it in the book, and I’m like, “Oh my god. They’re talking about it in the book.” And then right now, he understands some of the quotes that people have. But going back to epigenetics and quantum physics, but let’s just talk epigenetics for a second, because part of the victim mentality, I think, that people don’t recognize as being correct… And what I mean by that is when I first heard Abraham for the first time say, “You’re the creator of your own reality,” it changed my life, instantaneously changed my life. I didn’t need to prove it. I didn’t need to research it. I didn’t need to hear more. I just knew, “Oh my god,” and then from there, because I had a deep knowing. Now, people need to be often proven that things exist, and when it comes to our health, because I’m dealing with a lot of cancer patients as well as people with diseases who are finally ready to deal with their emotions because they now have heard enough or are ready to acknowledge that their emotions help to create their disease or they slowed down their healing. And that’s what I’m kind of specializing in right now. What I love, and I just honed in on this, I want you to explain the story about the schizophrenic who had dog allergies.

Dr. Lipton: Oh. Yeah. Well, it was actually a multiple personality or dissociation.

JJ: Okay.

Dr. Lipton: And basically, it says this. Let me just back up and very quickly say, “Well, how did I get here from being a conventional biomedical research scientist?” I was cloning stem cells. Stem cells are embryonic cells. You have them if you’re watching this show. Why? Because you’re made out of 50 trillion cells, and every day, hundreds of billions of cells die every day. That’s natural. You replace the entire lining of the digestive tract. Billions of cells every three days. Skin cells are sloughing off. Hair cells. Some of mine didn’t come back, but they’re always being replaced. And I go, “So why is it relevant?” And I say, “The stem cells are the equivalent of embryonic cells. So, you’re filled with them because if you’re still here, that means even though you’ve been losing hundreds of billions of cells every day, you’re replacing them. And so, what I’m doing is I’m working with a stem cell. It’s an embryonic cell, multipotential. I put one cell in a Petri dish by itself, and it divides every 10 hours. So, first there’s one, then there’s two, then there’s four, and then eight, 16, doubling. 30,000 cells a week later in the Petri dish. And I go, “What’s unique?” They all came from one parent. So I say, “Why is that unique?” “Because then,” I said, “they’re all genetically identical.” 30,000 genetically identical stem cells. I put them into three dishes, split them: 10,000, 10,000, 10,000. So, all the dishes have genetically identical cells, and I feed them culture medium. In the laboratory, you grow cells in a fluid called culture medium. I go, “So, what’s culture medium?” Laboratory version of blood. So I say, “Oh, I grow human cells.” I say, “What’s human blood made out of?” And then I make culture medium for human cells. But since I’m doing it in a lab, I can change some of the constituents a bit. So, I make three slightly different versions of culture medium. Blood. Chemistry.

I go, “So what?” Well, in one dish with version A, the cells formed muscle; and the second dish with growth medium B, they formed bone; and the third dish with another version, C, of culture medium, they formed fat cells. I go, “What controls the fate of the cells?” I go, “They were all genetically identical. The only thing that was different was the culture medium chemistry.” And all of a sudden, it’s just, “Oh my god. Then the genes didn’t determine what the cells were going to be. It was the culture medium that determined what the cells are going to be.” So I go, “Yep.” And now, all of a sudden, that led to a science called epigenetics, environment controlling the genetics from the culture medium. And then I say, “What’s culture medium?” Blood. And then I, last piece, put it together. We’d look in the mirror, see ourselves, single entity, Bruce, JJ. I go, “But we’re made out of 50 trillion cells. The cells are the living entity.” Bruce is the name of a community of 50 trillion cells. I go, “Oh. A human is a skin-covered Petri dish with 50 trillion cells inside, with the original culture medium called blood.” And I say, “Oh. Does it make a difference if the cell is in a plastic dish or a skin dish?” I say, “No.” In either case, it’s controlled by the culture medium, the blood. So I say, “The cells in your body are not being controlled by the genes. They’re being controlled by the blood.” And then two steps and we’re big time. And I go, “What two steps?” I said, “Well, who’s the chemist?” Who puts the chemistry of blood together, the culture medium?” I go, “The brain is the chemist.” And then comes the final point. What chemistry should the brain be putting into the blood? And here is the answer: Whatever vision you hold in your head, the brain translates that into complementary chemistry. You have a vision of love, you release beautiful chemistry. When people are in love, they glow, they’re healthy, they’re vibrant. I go, “That’s not an accident. That’s the chemistry of a culture medium.” But when people are in fear or in stress, the system collapses.

And I go, “So what’s the relevance?” I say, “The genes had no control over this. It all started with the consciousness.” What do you believe? How do you live? Why? That’s going to control your blood, and that blood controls your genetics. And the genes didn’t control you. You control the genes. So, cancer. 90% of cancer doesn’t even have any genetic linkage, meaning 90% of cancer cases, there’s no cancer in their family lineage. Boom, cancer. Where did the cancer come from? A belief system that was not in harmony with life, and you translated that disharmony into disharmony chemistry, which then manifests. And you go, “So what?” And I go, “That’s the whole damn secret.” Your vitality is not controlled by your genes. It’s controlled by what perceptions and beliefs you have in your head. And we’ve been programmed to be what? “You’re a victim. Your genes control you. I’m sorry. You’re going to get cancer. You’re going to have this disease.” I go, “The genes cause that?” I go, “The belief in the gene caused that.”

The gene is a blueprint to make the body parts. And I go, “So why is it relevant?” It’s a blueprint. Genes, DNA, blueprint to make proteins, which are the building blocks. And I go, “So, what’s the significance of that?” I go, “Go into an architect’s office and she’s working on a blueprint, and you ask her, ‘Hey, excuse me. Is your blueprint on or off?’ And she would look at you like, ‘What are you, crazy? It’s a blueprint. There’s no on and off.’” Yes. That’s where the truth comes from. A gene is a blueprint. It doesn’t have on and off, but it has an architect. An architect reads the blueprints and adjusts the blueprints. And the architect is the consciousness, and our consciousness can activate the genes. Well, is it going to activate healthy genes or disease? I go, “What are you thinking?” Because you’re going to translate that thought into complementary chemistry, and so negative thinking causes breakdown of the system, can cause any disease. You can die from a negative thought. And I go, “Oh my god. That’s the opposite of what everybody is always talking about: placebo.” Placebo is positive thinking. It healed me. And the conclusion here is simple. Negative thinking is equally powerful, but works in the opposite direction. While a placebo, positive thought can heal you of any disease, a negative thought can cause any disease and even death, and that’s not related to genetics. It’s related to consciousness.

JJ: I was talking about that on the show that didn’t make it here. I was talking about the nocebo effect of our environment and how the numbers… There’s also the “died of” versus “died with.” And there’s also the miscalculation of all that. Anyway, but that people make themselves sick. People can make themselves sick. You see it every day. It’s the worry. It’s the fear. It’s all of the emotions created from their brain that changes their chemistry. I mean, I see it happen all the time. And people don’t put that together because, again, they feel like they’re victims to an outside circumstance or an outside influence that then will affect them. They don’t understand the power they have to not even play in that realm, to literally live… Like I’ve said from the beginning, I live in a different world than you do. The world I live in is a frequency that you are not in and that I am living in. Therefore, my reality is very different.

Dr. Lipton: Absolutely.

JJ: And people don’t get that because of all of the information that’s been going on. So, what I love about… Because I’m really anti-victim mentality in all forms, meaning if someone says, “Oh, I’m allergic to this,” or “This has happened,” I go, “Okay, well, let’s go back to what’s an allergy. An allergy is the body’s reaction thinking it’s in danger, and so it becomes inflammatory and it wants to protect itself.” So, why did that happen? In my past relationship, there were a lot of friends who were allergic to cats, and I have cats. And I got really tired of hearing and the attitude that it was the cat’s fault. It’s not the cat’s fault. So, I don’t know if you know “Messages from the Body,” the psychological root of most diseases. Anyway, he has another book. It has to do with allergies and aversion. So, I looked it up, and a cat allergy had to do with, like, mother wounds. And I was like, “Okay, great.” That’s all I needed to know because I needed to know all you people who have… And no disrespect for those who have cat allergies. It’s not about judging. It’s about uncovering, “Where did this start, and why does the body feel it needs to react?” And it’s not a show I’ve done because I can’t get anyone to do a show on this with me about allergies, but that’s why I wanted you to tell this story. So, in “Spontaneous Evolution,” you tell the story about a man with dog allergies. Can we tell it now?

So, a cat and dog allergy is interesting in this regard. The number of people who were never allergic to an animal, then all of a sudden, they get allergic to dogs. And then they find out what happened. Well, they were in a relationship with this other person who had dogs, the relationship went upside down, they lost the whole thing, and when the guy left, he then had a dog allergy. Didn’t have it before. I go, “What was the dog allergy?” It was psychologically connected to the loss of the relationship they were in. And so, the dog was like a transference. “Okay, I lost a relationship and it’s a dog.” They got allergic to dogs. And all of a sudden, it says the immune system is controlled by the consciousness. It’s the whole leading edge of immunology. It’s called—big word—psychoneuroimmunology. This is the leading edge of immunologists. I say, “That’s a very big word.” Well, it’s actually three words. And in biology, the sequence of the words is very important. The base word is immunology. Yep, that’s the immune system. The next word was called neuroimmunology. The brain sends chemical signals to control the function of the immune system. But then the first word is called psychoneuroimmunology, and it says what? The psychology supersedes the other two, that the psychology can then cause the nervous system to alter the immune system. So, what’s in charge? Not the immune system, not the nervous system. It’s the psychology that’s in charge. Consciousness is creating our life experience.

Now, Bruce would go, “Oh, consciousness is creating our life experience.” I go, “Look, my work showed that in the nature of what is called epigenetics, where the consciousness is used to translate chemistry, which then controls genetics.” Epi means above. So, epigenetic control means control above the genes. And we now know that that’s consciousness right there. And the relevance about that is like, “Oh, then our consciousness is adjusting our biology and our life and our behavior.” And I go, “Yeah, that’s a fact of epigenetics.” And then I go back even further because quantum physics, and I call it the most valid science for a simple reason, is that the theoretical insights on day one of quantum physics in 1927, 100% almost have been verified to be true. And I go, “So what?” And I go… You ready? Principle number one, quantum physics: Consciousness is creating your life experience. And I go, “What does that mean?” I go, “According to quantum physics, you change your consciousness, you change your life experience.” Well, in biology, that’s where my work came in, it showed you change your consciousness, you change your genetics. Epigenetics. So, it’s coming to a simple fact. We are creating this life experience.

And so, the idea is, well, we’ve been programmed. I go, “Where the hell did that come in?” I go, “In the first seven years of our life. We have to learn how to become a member of a family and a community. We have to be participants.” I go, “How many rules must an infant learn to become a functional member of a family, a functional member of a community?” I go, “How a father talks to his own kid is not how he talks to the neighbor’s kids. It’s not how he talks to the neighbor’s mother. It’s not how he talks to his own wife. It’s not how he talks to the policeman.” I go, “Oh my god. How many rules do I need to play here?” I go, “When do you learn?” And I said, “Before you’re seven.” I said, “How can you learn them?” And the answer is, because the first seven years of your life, your brain is not in thinking consciousness. It is in hypnosis. We’ve been programmed. And I say, “Oh my god. Then the program that we download in the first seven years of life, it turns out to be 95% of our life.” And I go, “So why is that relevant?” And I go, “Because almost all of us were criticized as children in an effort by parents to make us do better.” “That’s not good enough. Who do you think you are? You don’t deserve this.” Well, they were trying to needle us to do better. But they don’t recognize a child under seven is not thinking. He’s just recording. So I say, “What does the average child record?” Not good enough, not lovable enough, not deserving, not this, not that. They just heard that because that’s what the parents were… Like a coach. If a player on the team is not doing well, the coach doesn’t go, “Oh, please do better.” No. The coach goes, “That’s not good enough. You don’t deserve to be on this team.” Well, the thinking kid over seven will go, “Oh, I’m not working hard enough. I should do better.” A kid under seven, not thinking, just says, “Oh, I do not deserve. I am not good enough. I am this.” Because they’re not thinking. They’re just taking the words.

So, most of us have really bad programming. And I say, “That’s why we struggle through life, because we never got the kind of programming that could be given to us by a parent and the awareness of your programming as a child.” So, what should you be saying? “You are the smartest. You are the most powerful. You are the most lovable.” Giving them a program of positive. But we don’t. Okay? So, we’ve been programmed. So, that’s where the movie “The Matrix” comes in. Yes, all of us have been programmed. There was no way you could get here without programming. It’s like buying a computer. In the old days, you buy a computer, you could boot it up but you can’t do anything until you do what? First put the program in. And I go, “This is the same thing. The brain boots up in the last trimester of pregnancy, but it’s not usable until it programs.” And I go, “Seven years of not being in conscious level, but being below conscious, in theta. It’s just hypnosis. How did I learn all the rules?” The answer is, all you did was observe. You watch your mother, your father, your siblings, your community, downloaded like a video camera. That’s how life works. And then 95% of your life comes from those programs. So, we’ve been programmed. Matrix.

And then, all of a sudden, so just to get out of this one second, the beautiful part about “The Matrix” is, oh my god, you can take the red pill. You could get out of the program. And so, I’m going to tell people right now, yes, you’ve been programmed. That’s a fact. Every human has to have been programmed in that first seven years. The Jesuits were proud to know that. They would tell their followers, “Give me a child until they’re just seven, and I will show you the man.” Because they knew whatever program you got in the first seven years, 95% of your life is that program. That’s true. The red pill, almost everybody out there, are you ready? Most of you have taken the red pill and it profoundly changed your life. I go, “When did I take the red pill?” When you fall in love. When you fall in love, you stop thinking and you stay mindful. You stay present. And it’s the thinking that actually…when the conscious mind is thinking, it’s not paying attention. Thinking, it’s inside. So, when you’re thinking, the subconscious programs that you got in the first seven years, they take over your life. And all of a sudden, so when you’re thinking, you’re not living your life. Now you’re living the life of the program. And 95% of the day, for the average person, is how much thinking is going on.

But the moment you fall in love, you stop thinking and you stay present because you’ve been looking for this person your whole life. They just showed up. Who wants to think? You want to be there now. So, you stop thinking and you stay mindful, meaning you stop thinking, you’re present. And I go, “What happens? Twenty-four hours later, you’re heaven on earth in a honeymoon. I don’t care how blah blah blah it was. You fall in love. Twenty-four hours later, it’s like, “Life is so beautiful, and everything is so wonderful.” It’s called a honeymoon. I go, “How did you get the honeymoon?” Because you’re a creator and this is the first time you stopped the programming from creating and you took over the control. When you fall in love, you stop playing programs and you become manifesting of your destiny at that moment. And I go, “From what?” From blah blah blah, 24 hours later, “Life is beautiful, man. Life is wonderful. I’m in love.” I go, “That was the red pill.”

And unfortunately, thinking will come back in. And when thinking comes back in, all the bad programs that you didn’t play in the relationship starts showing up. They throw a monkey wrench in the relationship. Honeymoon is over. And in most cases, the relationship is over because those negative programs you put in the first seven years stop playing when you’re in love. But the moment you start thinking, boom, they’re back again. And in the relationship, it starts out in the honeymoon because you’re not playing your negative programs. You’re playing creator. “I am in love. I am creating heaven on earth.” I say, “You did, and you created it.” But there’s a point where thinking comes back in because you have a job, responsibilities, all this stuff. And the moment you are thinking, you then revert back to subconscious programs. Of this, 60% are disempowering and negative. And all of a sudden, you start playing these negative programs that your partner never saw, because when you fell in love, you stopped playing the program. And now they started showing up and some of those programs are toxic.

JJ: No, I agree. I think most of them are. So, that’s a really wonderful setup for our next conversation we’re having about your third book, “The Honeymoon Effect,” because we’re going to talk about that too, because you said you’d come back for all the books.

Dr. Lipton: I will.

I mean, I think what’s going on right now is literally a whole bunch of repressed emotions coming out, all these subconscious programs that people are not…they’re just so in fight or flight. They’re so in this fear, nocebo effect, that they’re not even conscious. They’re not in their conscious brain. They’re in a reactive… In Jill Bolte Taylor’s work, “Whole Brain Living,” you’re in your character 2. You’re in your survival mode. You’re trying to defend yourself, and you’re not utilizing the other parts of the brain that help to create you being in the moment, being present, disconnecting from the programs of the other parts of the brain. So, when we look at Spontaneous Evolution, people are like, “Okay, well, what do I do? What can I do right now?” Without crossing into “The Honeymoon Effect” yet, because I want everyone to get “Spontaneous Evolution,” although I do really want you to get it on audio, but get the book too. What can we do, all of us, to help this planet?

Dr. Lipton: Well, the first thing is stop buying into the story of you have no power, that you’re a victim, that the world is falling apart. Just pay attention and live there. And we were programmed like… The basic thing is when a parent said to a child, “Who do you think you are?” And guess what? Most children go, “Nobody?” And I go, “That was the moment that you acquiesced to the fact that ‘I have no power. I am nobody.’” And we are programmed, “Don’t say your real feelings to people. Be nice. Lie to them,” and all that. And I go, “Nobody is being true to anything really right here.” And the idea is you are a powerful creator until you buy the belief that you are a victim. And that’s what they’re selling you. “Oh, the genes control your life.” Totally false. Genes do not control anything. You control your genes. And if you knew that, then people would make a positive step to doing a better job. But no, they don’t know that. They’ve been programmed that “I am an expression of my genes and I have no control. I’m going to get cancer because it’s in my family. I’m going to get heart disease because it’s in my family.” I go, “That’s all from creation.” You are a creator.

And people can’t buy that because their entire subconscious programming, first seven years, is disempowering programs. There are many of these disempowering programs. “If you have feelings, don’t have feelings. Listen to what a person has to say. Don’t let your feelings get in the way.” And I go, “Biggest stupid mistake we ever made.” Because feelings are energy, and energy is either supporting you (good vibes) or energy is compromising you (bad vibes). But the vibes are feelings. And when we don’t express our feelings, then we’re not being true. And when we’re programmed not to express our feelings, then that is a program that says, “You have no power. Don’t express it. Just live it.” And I go, “Oh my god. We have been systematically disempowered to fit in.” And as I said, the Jesuits have known that for 400 years. They told everybody the truth. It’s the first seven years of programming that determines the rest of your life. Well, if you had this knowledge, then you can change the damn first seven years of programming and put in better programs. But you don’t even know you’ve been programmed. That’s “The Matrix.” You don’t even know you’ve been programmed. And the only way you know you’ve been programmed, if you think about it, is when you stop playing the program, your life radically changes within 24 hours of just stopping the damn program. “I’m in love. Screw the program. I’m not going to think.” Because it’s the thinking that takes the power away from the conscious mind. The conscious mind is like looking out the window, and your biology is like a vehicle driving through the world, and you’re watching what’s going on consciously. But the moment you are thinking, the conscious mind is not looking out the window. Thinking is inside. So, that means whatever was happening out the window, you didn’t even see it. I say, “Well, how do you even respond to it?” I say, “You’ve been programmed to respond to it without even thinking about it.”

So, a story, very quickly I’ll just say, is like you’re in a car and you’re driving and you have a friend, and you get into a conversation, and you get so deep into that conversation. And then you look out the window and you realize, “I haven’t paid attention to the road for the last five minutes.” I go, “Well, you’re still driving. It doesn’t look like you killed anybody. You’re not in an accident. Seems everything is safe. So, that’s okay.” And now I ask two questions. Question number one: “What was your discussion about?” “Oh, because your conscious mind was involved, we talked about this and this and this.” I go, “Great.” Question number two: “What was on the road for that last five minutes?” You go, “I don’t know. I didn’t see it.” I go, “No, you didn’t. Why? Because your consciousness was paying attention to the conversation. It was not looking out the window.” And I say, “Well, who the hell drove the car?” I go, “Subconscious is autopilot. The moment you are not paying attention, the autopilot takes over.” You learn how to drive a car. The subconscious is a million times more powerful a computer than the conscious. So, you’ve got a million times more power when the subconscious is driving the car. As a matter of fact, if you’re going into an accident and the car is skidding, if you stayed in the conscious mind, slow, here’s the scenario: The car is going out of control. You’re holding on to the wheel and you go, “Ohhh.” I go, “That doesn’t happen.” I say, “What happened?” As soon as he goes out of control, you’re turning the wheel, you’re hitting the pedals, you’re doing all kinds of actions. I go, “Instantaneously.” I go, “How did that happen?” I say, “Because that moment of stress shuts off the conscious mind, puts you into the subconscious mind. A million times more powerful processor can handle all of this stuff that the conscious mind couldn’t do in that very short time.” So, all of a sudden, I go, “Oh my god. What’s the point?” 95% of the day, I’m thinking like the average person. Then that means 95% of the day, you are playing programs that you are not conscious of. Why? It’s subconscious, autopilot. It’s playing while you’re thinking.

And I probably even said it the last time we were on air, the same very quick story, is you have a friend, you know your friend’s behavior very well, you know your friend’s parent, and one day you see your friend has the exact same behavior as the parent. So, you want to tell your friend, you get all excited, you go, “Hey, Bill, you’re just like your dad.” Back away from Bill, because the first thing Bill is going to say, I know it, and the answer is this: “How can you compare me to my dad? I’m nothing like my dad.” And the audience laughs because they’ve all experienced it. And I go, “Profound story. Most profound story.” And I go, “What is it?” “Everyone else can see that Bill behaves like his dad. Who’s the one that can’t see it? Bill. Why can’t Bill see he behaves like his dad?” And I say, “Why? Because he’s playing his dad’s programming. He downloaded it the first seven years.” The answer is because he’s not paying attention. So, whatever behavior is coming out when he’s not paying attention, Bill is the one that doesn’t see it, but everybody else can see it. And I say, “Why is this profound?” I say, “Because we are all Bill.” People don’t want to own it. We’re all Bill. 95% of your life is playing without you even seeing it, because that’s how much time you spend thinking.

And yet what would it mean? It’s like, well, in my conscious mind, I believe, of course, I’d be the most wonderful, loving person and everything. And I go, “Yeah, but if you’re working from 95% subconscious mind and that was programmed by other people, you might find yourself not that same person anymore. You’ll find yourself disempowered or an angry person or whatever, self-sabotaging person. And that’s why we wake up in the morning, “Today I’m going to get healthy. Today I’m going to find romance. Today I’m going to get the best job.” And you come home at 5:00 and it’s like, “Didn’t happen today.” And then you say, “Well, why didn’t it happen?” Here’s the problem. Just like Bill, you didn’t see the behavior you played 95% of the day. You started with “Today’s the day,” but 95% of the day, you were playing programs just like Bill, playing those programs you downloaded, most of them disempowering. And yet you didn’t see them just like Bill, for the simple reason is because when you’re thinking, you’re not observing your own behavior. And that’s why you don’t see it but everybody else does. And if you have self-sabotaging behavior, you will be sabotaging yourself in front of all these people, except your conscious mind wouldn’t have any idea you did it because it was thinking when the subconscious program took over.

And we have to recognize: Are we living the life we want, or are we living the life we’ve been programmed? The answer is unfortunately the latter, because that’s how much of the time, 95%. And the Jesuits knew it for 400 years and they told you that. And I go, “Yep.” And I say, “Well, who knows that?” And I go, “The leadership of this world knows that.” The leadership knows programming better than even the Jesuits knew programming. When you see an infant walking around with an iPad, they can hardly walk and they’ve got an iPad, you’re seeing programming. And we have been disempowered by programming because there are powerful people. I said, “How did those people get so powerful?” The joke: They didn’t get more powerful than you. They took away your power and they maintained their power. Because you’ve been programmed to be powerless. They’ve been programmed to maintain power.

A famous book, “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.” And it says what? You come from a family of rich people, you’ve been programmed to be a rich person. Even if you don’t know how it happens and why, it’s subconscious. An idiot like Trump, he’s an idiot, but he’s got a subconscious program: how to manipulate the money, because he grew up in his father’s family that way. I go, “So, the significance is really clearly this: The programmers shape who we are. And we, as a collective population, have been systemically programmed to be powerless.” And that makes the one that didn’t get programmed that way, the rich dad guy, very powerful compared to which one? The one who comes from a poor family. Why? Because what’s their belief? “Not good enough. Can’t make it. Life’s a struggle. Can’t get there. We’re going to work real hard, but we’re going to stay poor.” I go, “Oh, well, then that’s your fate.” The rich one learned all the rules. And even if they could be stupid, their subconscious 95% of the day is going to play those rules. And so, did you come from rich dad family or poor dad family? Not that many rich dad families.

JJ: No. And I think that’s why you do the work you do. That’s why I’m doing the work I do. Because when we understand we have choice, and it’s what we focus on and the stories that we tell ourselves, then we get to have choice. And the consciousness of being aware of your behaviors, your thoughts, your feelings, your beliefs, how do you react to things? Actually, this video will be out way past this possibly, but maybe the replay will be there. But I’m doing a course tomorrow, a free workshop called “The 3 Reasons Why Traditional Talk Therapy Is Ineffective.”

Dr. Lipton: That’s very unfortunate because you’re not using your conscious mind. Your conscious mind could be super smart, and it is. “Oh, I read this book. I understand all the principles.” I give you a test. Yeah, you get 100. You really understood the principles of the self-help book. Did it change your life? And the answer is “No, but I’m smart.” I go, “In the conscious mind, you’re smart, but if you’re only using it 5% of the time, that’s not going to carry you through.” So, you can read all the damn self-help books you want, you can get all of the videos, you can go to all the lectures, you could do all these programs. I go, “Yes, you’re educating your conscious mind.” And I go, “How much of that life is coming from that?” And I go, “About 5%.” I go, “Then that doesn’t help you, did it?” And talk therapy deals with your consciousness, but it didn’t deal with the programming you got. And therefore, you want to change. You change the program. A lot of people think, “Well, let’s go back and talk about who did what to who and that evil person, your mom, your dad, and they did all these things.” And you replay these in your mind in your talk therapy, and your mind is going, “Oh, god. That was really bad. Give me some tissue. I’m going to cry.” I go, “Did that change anything?” I say, “No. You just reinforced the damn problem you had in the first place with that.” I say, “You don’t have to go backwards to change your life.” Why? I say, “Your life is a printout of your program. You are living 95% of your life from the program. Look at your life.”

There’s an old saying: Don’t kill the messenger over the message. The person who created the problem in your life a long time ago was a messenger. You walked away with a program. You want to go back and beat up the messenger? I go, “It’s irrelevant.” Why? Your problem isn’t with the messenger anymore. Your problem is the program you carried away with you. And the issue is, “Well, then I don’t have to go backwards.” I go, “Absolutely not.” Going backwards just replays the same story. I say, “What’s my problem?” And I go, “You want to know what your program is? 95% of the day. Here’s the simple answer. Look at your life right now. The things that you like that come into your life, they come in because you have programs that acknowledge them.” But—and this is the one that’s important—the things that you want or desire, and you find that you’re working hard, you’re struggling, you’re putting a lot of effort, “I’m sweating over it. I’m making this happen.” I go, “Why are you working so hard?” And the answer, and I love it because it’s so simple, is that destination that you’re seeking is not supported by your program. And therefore, your conscious effort to work harder is to override an existing program. So, I say, “You don’t have to go back to find out your programs. You’re living them right now.” You’re having trouble in relationship? Well, you’ve got some damn bad programming in the beginning, and you’re trying to make a relationship built on some bad programs that are operating 95% of the day. You’re struggling. If it’s a job, if it’s health, you’re struggling. Why? Your struggle is not because nature is making you struggle. Your struggle is because your own program is preventing you from getting there.

And this is why I’m very supportive of your efforts. Yeah, I can do all the talk therapy I want, and you can find out about all the people who did you wrong, and then you’re going to use all the tissue. And I go, “Who cares? They’re not here.” Your program is here. They’re not here. Deal with the program. Don’t deal with the messenger. That’s a waste of your time completely. And replaying the program is just digging that groove in that old-fashioned record a bit deeper each time you play that program. And it’s time to say, “No, I don’t need to go backwards.” “I have a problem with relationship.” Well, then damn well, you have to change the program that you have. And this is why your coaching, JJ, is so important, because people don’t know how to really change that program.

JJ: No, they don’t. No. I had a client last week for the first time, and she’s been in therapy six months. And after one session, I deconstructed anxiety and depression into needs that weren’t being met, and then behavioral changes moving forward. And already she’s like, “Oh my god. I wasted a lot of time in therapy.” I mean, she stopped going because she didn’t feel like it was effective, and she’s listened to my show for three years. So, I hear this over and over again, which is why I’m doing this. And again, you’re the scientific validator of the things that I’m doing, because in all of your books, you’re breaking it down into the science of why this is true, why emotion is energy, why energy creates a reality, why emotion creates your reality, why emotion affects disease. Emotion can heal you. Emotion can make you sick, because it’s the perception that changes the gene expression and the way the body reacts.

Dr. Lipton: That’s right, because perception is turned into chemistry, and the chemistry then goes through the cells. Just like in the plastic dish, genetically identical cells, different chemistry, different fate. So, it had nothing to do with the genes. They were all the same. But it sure has everything to do with the chemistry that the cells were living in, which is called blood. And you are the chemist of that blood. And so, that’s why your work becomes important. Let’s change the damn chemistry, not going through all the history of all this. It’s irrelevant.

JJ: Well, my work becomes stronger because of your work. And my work comes from your work and from others who I’ve studied with to understand and be able to explain this to people. I want people to get this book, and then the next conversation we’re talking about, “The Honeymoon Effect.” So, what have I not covered that is in Spontaneous…? I mean, again, look at this book. It’s a thick book, so we were not going to cover in…

Dr. Lipton: It’s an easy-to-read book.

JJ: Right, but it’s chockfull of… So, what did I not cover that people need to know they’re going to get from this?

Dr. Lipton: It’s that civilization has been programmed. Look. “Biology of Belief” was my first book, and it talked about how your belief shapes the genetics and the behavior. And when I was writing and I thought, “Well, what about collective belief?” I said, “Oh my god. Collective belief controls the collective behavior.” And I go, “Oh, Jesus, we’ve been all programmed?” I go, “Yes. Collective beliefs.” And it’s the collective beliefs that we look back at them right now and, like that book emphasizes, most of them are beliefs that have taken away your power. And since belief is controlling your life, if you believe you have no power, then you have no power, because your belief is going to manifest that reality. So, “Biology of Belief” talked about how belief affects us as individuals. “Spontaneous Evolution” is like, “Oh my god. Look how beliefs over the time have created these different versions of civilization.” Each civilization is based on beliefs specific to that civilization. And when those beliefs change, civilization changes as well. And we are in a change, because up until now, the belief of our civilization is you’re a victim of your genes, you have no power, that your life is controlled by outside forces nothing to do with you. And we’re waking up to know those beliefs, those are wrong, and that the new beliefs are the ones that say, “You are the creator.” If you understand how you do this, then you can use this as a tool. If you don’t understand it, then you’re just like, “Well, it seemed like an accident to me.” And I go, “It’s not an accident. We are manifesting it.”

And you brought it up very early, JJ. The hardest part, and this is important, I’ve got to get this out because I just realized, the hardest part is owning responsibility. “I had cancer. Oh, no, the genes gave me the cancer. I had nothing to do with the cancer.” And I go, “No.” And I go, “What’s the issue?” Because if you go back and you look at the things that happened to your life, and they’re not very good things, whether it’s violence in a relationship, whether it’s cancer, whatever the hell it is, and you go, “I can’t be responsible for that.” And therefore, things like victim, all those terms that disempower us. “I’m a victim.” And I go, “We are not.” And yet, I say, “Well, how can I own that I gave myself cancer?” And I say, “Because you had no knowledge. And when you have no knowledge, you have no power.” Knowledge is power. And since you had no knowledge of what happened in the past, of how it happened… “It happened. I can tell you all the miserable things. All the things, I can tell you about it.” And then I say, “But you were responsible.” And you go, “No. I wouldn’t have done that.” And I go, “If you had knowledge, you wouldn’t have done that.” But you didn’t have knowledge. And if you don’t have knowledge, then you can’t be blamed. You can’t be a victim if you didn’t have any knowledge.

And the idea is what? Blame, shame, victim. These are all only valuable—ready?—if you knew there was a right way and knowingly decided not to follow the right way. Then I don’t blame you. You shouldn’t be ashamed of that. But if you had no knowledge, how can I blame you? You had no knowledge of this. You have been deprived of the knowledge. So, when you go back and look at your life and go, “Oh my god. I caused that cancer?” Well, yeah, but you didn’t have any knowledge that you did that, so how can I blame you? You weren’t there. You had no understanding. But here’s the beautiful part. But now, starting today, you do. I say, “Oh, it wasn’t an accident?” No, it was a program. And now, starting today, I say, “I don’t have to own the past.” Only own the past if you already knew there was a way to do it right and you chose not to do it right in spite of that. But if you had no knowledge of it, you have no blame and you can’t be blamed for something you didn’t have any knowledge of. And therefore, then let’s disregard the history. Don’t go back and repeat all that damn crap again. Let’s say, what is it you want that you’re not getting? I go, “Oh, now it’s time to put a new program in.” “If I change the program, then I just change my life.” And I go, “Absolutely.”

JJ: It’s that simple. And here’s all the other words that prove that, that back it up. But it really is that simple. And if you’re not a believer yet, I don’t know what you’re doing watching me right now or listening to Bruce. And if you are a believer, please pass it on so we can educate people that they are the creator of their own reality, and here’s how you can have a better life. So, will the next book, “The Honeymoon Effect,” teach us how to actively choose the red pill?

Dr. Lipton: Well, absolutely. Except that I want to talk about it, but I know we’re on a time constraint, so I must have you put me back on your show.

JJ: You have to leave me room. I’ve been trying… I literally think we’ve reached out to you every four months, like, “Hey, is he free yet?” “No, not yet.” I’m like, “Oh my god. It’s been two years.”

Dr. Lipton: Well, let’s do it faster. And we’ll talk to Annie, who organizes my life. Let’s bring it up a little sooner.

JJ: Please.

Dr. Lipton: The answer to that is “The Honeymoon Effect.” So, what does simply come down to? And the answer is this: Your life is blah blah blah, and some event of love changes from blah blah blah to heaven on earth. If you understand that switch (blah blah blah, heaven on earth), then you’re in control of that switch. And if you’re in control of that switch, then a honeymoon is not a short time period. A honeymoon could be every day as long as you live, 150 years on this planet that you wake up in love, you fall asleep in love, you live in love, no disease, because you are the powerful creator. Except if you didn’t understand how to get the hell out of the damn program. But you’re the coach, my dear friend.

JJ: Oh, I could help. So can you. And that’s why maybe everybody, get two books. Get this one. Get “Spontaneous Evolution,” and go ahead and pre-order, get your “Honeymoon Effect,” read it, and tell me what questions you want us to talk about for our next show. All right? So, there. Don’t just buy one. Buy both books. And then where else would you direct them to go after this if they just wanted more of this conversation or more of your tools? Just brucelipton.com, or maybe there’s anything specific?

Dr. Lipton: brucelipton.com has everything we’re talking about, freely downloadable videos, audios, written articles. It’s all free to download. That’s a starting place. Actually, it could be an ending place, because if you end that, then you just want maybe the support of a coach to say, “Okay, now that you’ve become aware of this, how can I help you facilitate this to go faster?” And then, all of a sudden, it’s like, “Okay, from Bruce to JJ.”

JJ: Yeah. Let’s talk about that.

Dr. Lipton: Because that’s it. You just need someone to…because you can’t see your own behavior. You need somebody on the outside to look back at you. And this is why you have friends and you might have really crappy behavior, and your friends are not going to tell you about it. I go, “Why not?” Because then you’ll get angry at them for saying that you were not being the best you were, and then you’d get all upset. So, guess what? They won’t tell you. And in a relationship, in a real, serious relationship, if this is understood that both people in that relationship came in with programs that they can’t see, what it usually leads to is an argument. Because let’s say I’m in a relationship with my beautiful partner Margaret and we’re having a great time in the love part, then she comes in, I’m thinking about work I got to do, and she asks me a simple question, I go, “Blah blah blah…” And she looks at me—I love that line—“Who are you? Where did that come from?” And now go back to Bill. I didn’t see what I just said. It was automatic behavior. Now you are accusing me, Margaret, of being a bad person, and in my conscious mind, it’s like, “I’m not a bad person.” And now we have an argument. And I say, “That was the old days.”How about I know that I now play programs that I don’t see, and if Margaret comes in and acknowledges that that behavior wasn’t right, then I have to say, “What behavior?” And then she can talk to me about that. Now we have a discussion. I go, “That’s not an argument. It’s a discussion. ” Because I’m aware that I am playing programs that I don’t see, so why should I get mad at her? It was me who played the program. But if I am aware of this, then there’s no argument, because now that’s an opportunity to say, “Well, let’s change that bad program.”

And the point about “The Honeymoon Effect” is a guy like me who couldn’t get a relationship off the ground for over 40 years because I got relationship programming from my father, who was really not the best partner in a romance. And also, I downloaded his behavior, and when I was unconsciously playing that 95% of the day, I was pushing away people. I couldn’t get a relationship. And then Margaret and I both are aware of all the stuff that I’m talking about here because she was involved in programming as well and training. So, we decided, “Let’s just talk this out. And if we talk it out, I can change a behavior. If you yell at me, I probably will just go into my cell and I’m not going to change anything.” But we’re having a discussion. “Ah, I can learn and I can change my behavior.” And I did. And I say, “I rewrote those programs that disempowered my relationship.” And I say, “Well, what am I?” I say, “I’m in a honeymoon.” I say, “For how many?” I say, “Twenty-five years of waking up every day with my partner, going, ‘God, I’m so happy to be here with you. I love you. I’m here.’” Every day. And I go, “What does it mean?” I say, “I love my life.” JJ, I love my life. It is not the same life I have for 40-plus years, because those programs I downloaded in my family, those programs took me away from all of this. But becoming aware (a) I have programs, and (b) identifying these programs, and (c) which we’re going to talk about, changing those programs. I have a honeymoon every day, and everything else conforms to my honeymoon life. In this crazy world, I’m having a great life.

JJ: So am I. And I know people are going to be chomping at the bit to hear that story and to get into “The Honeymoon Effect.” So, stay tuned, everybody. He’ll be back, hopefully before two years. So, brucelipton.com. Because I mentioned it, I’m sure the replay is still available if you want to click down below. And it’s jjflizanes.com/therapy. You can see the replay of “3 Reasons Why Traditional Talk Therapy Is Ineffective.” And thank you so much. It’s just always a pleasure. And again, you can come back anytime. There’s so much to talk about, so much to teach, so much to spread. Again, even just this conversation, I feel like, elevates people’s frequencies to be able to think more clearly, and receive downloads and messages, and open up to possibility, which is kind of really what… You talked about conscious mind and being conscious of your programs. It’s also being curious. And rather than being a victim, of always questioning. When you take responsibility for yourself, you get to say, “Huh. Why did that happen?” That’s all you need. If you just started from a curiosity perspective, “Why did I act that way? Why did I feel that way? Why did I think that?” If you just start there… And I’m the “Why? Why? Why?” person. If you could answer any of those questions, now you’ve moved off of these programs into “Now, what can I do about it?” So, I hope that today inspired you to take a look at your own programs. You’re going to get the book, and you’re going to get the next book. And links are below. You’re going to check out Bruce if you haven’t already, which I’m sure you have because you’ve probably found me because you were searching him on YouTube. But those of you who are in my community, I’ll let you know if we have to bombard Annie to get him on sooner. But Dr. Bruce, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Lipton: JJ, thank you. And I really want to thank our audience because that’s where evolution is going to come from. Each one of us is a participant in this evolution. We are not victims. We are manifesters. And when we come together, we can manifest a much better world to live in than the one that we have right now.

JJ: Amen. And so it is.

Dr. Lipton: Thank you so much.